Conference Of His Excellency
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
Long Island, New York
November 5, 1983
I THINK THAT, like all
traditionalist Catholics, you would like now to hear how things
stand; at what point relations are between the Priestly Society
of St. Pius X and the Vatican in Rome. So I shall give you a rapid
summary.
Why do I maintain relations
with Rome? Why do I keep going to Rome? Because I think that Rome
is the center of Catholicism, because I think that there cannot
be any Catholic Church without Rome. Consequently, if our purpose
is to find a way of setting the Church straight again, it is by
turning to Rome that maybe, with the grace of God, we may perhaps
manage to set the situation straight. It is not one single bishop
like myself who can set the whole situation straight in the Catholic
Church. That is why I strive to keep on going to Rome and to plead
the cause of Tradition. Because I am persuaded that it is by Tradition
that the Catholic Church will recover its position as it was before
the Second Vatican Council, and the means of its true progress.
In the first place, I must tell you that I am under no illusions
the situation in Rome is very grave, very grave. Let me sum up the
whole situation as it took place at the Council and such as, unfortunately,
it still exists even today, by saying that there were, in fact,
three betrayals of the Church. Holy Church was betrayed in three
ways in a very direct and concrete fashion.
The first betrayal was
the betrayal with the Freemason, the second with the Protestants,
and the. third was the betrayal with the Communists.
There was an understanding
before the Council and during the Council through men commissioned
by the Church who were the instruments of these betrayals, namely,
the Secretariat for the Unity of Christians, which was specially
created for that, directed by Cardinal Bea with, as Vice President,
Msgr. de Smedt, Bishop of Bruges, and with, as Secretary, Msgr.
Willebrands, who became Cardinal of Holland. These were the personalities
who were the instruments of betrayal. There were direct contacts
precisely between Cardinal Bea and the Masonic Lodge here in New
York and in Washington, with the B'nai Brith, the Jewish Lodge numbering
75,000 members, and with the lodges of the whole world.
Why did these contacts
take place? Why did Cardinal Bea come in the name of the Vatican,
in the name of Rome, to meet these Freemasons? In order that we
would accept the “rights of man” at the Council. How
could we accept them? By accepting Religious Liberty, which is one
of the “rights of man.” Hence, to accept Religious Liberty
was in principle to accept the “rights of man” within
the Church. Now, the Church has always condemned these declarations
on the “rights of man” which have been made against
the authority of God.
The second betrayal
was the betrayal with the Protestants. It is Msgr. Willebrands who
was entrusted in particular with the fostering of relations with
the Ecumenical Council of Churches in Geneva. He went to Geneva
to make peace with the Protestants, and the Protestants said to
him, we can make peace with you, we can all unite and work together,
but you must remove everything in the liturgy of the Church and
in the concept of the Church which does not agree with Protestant
principles. Hence, the whole liturgy and the whole structure of
the Church was to be modified and there was to be a new Canon Law
to establish this new structure of the Church and to put it into
practice, a democratic structure. This is what was then accomplished
by Msgr. Willebrands.
The third betrayal was
through Msgr. Willebrands also, and Cardinal Bea, through their
meeting with delegates of Moscow at Constantinople and also in Greece,
with representatives of the Orthodox Church, the Patriarch Pimen
of the Orthodox Church delegated by Moscow. What had to be done
in order to please the Communists? The Communists required that
there should be no condemnation of Communism at the Council, firstly;
secondly, that all the bishops opposed to the Communist regime should
be dismissed and replaced by collaborating bishops. Well, these
various requirements: Religious Liberty required by the Freemasons,
the changing of the whole interior and the Constitutions and the
liturgy of the Church by the Protestants; the non condemnation of
Communism and the changing of the bishops by the Communists all
this was agreed to and granted by the Church. The Church said yes,
that’s all right, we accept Religious Liberty, and it was
Msgr. deSmedt, the Vice President of the Secretariat for Christian
Unity, who was the reporter at the Council for the schema on Religious
Liberty, together with Cardinal Bea, who was behind him and who
supported him. Five times there was an attempt to refuse this schema,
five times they brought it back, and finally they succeeded in having
Religious Liberty passed.
What that meant was
the laicizing of all the Catholic States, which is very grave, excessively
grave. The Protestants also were given what they wanted and you
saw the Protestants present at the liturgical reform. They were
there: six Protestant pastors were present at the liturgical reform,
and they asked these Protestant pastors what might be displeasing
to them in the Catholic Church, and Pope Paul VI did everything
he could to satisfy them. Hence, they changed our Mass in order
to please the Protestants, and that is what they call “ecumenism.”
And the Communists were promised, Communism will not be condemned
at the Council, and it wasn’t condemned at the Council. I
myself carried 450 signatures to the Secretariat of the Council
in order to have Communism condemned. I did it myself! Four hundred
and fifty signatures of bishops were put away in a drawer and they
were buried in silence whereas sometimes the request of a single
bishop was listened to. In this case, 450 bishops were ignored.
The drawer was closed, we were told, no, no, we have no knowledge
of that, there will be no condemnation of Communism. And they replaced
the anti Communist bishops: Cardinal Mindszenty by Cardinal Lekai,
Cardinal Beran in Czechoslovakia by Cardinal Tomasec. The same happened
in Lithuania, and in Czechoslovakia, all the bishops became priests
of the Pax movement, collaborators of the Communist regime. You
can read in the book called Moscow and the Vatican how the Lithuanian
priests wrote to their bishops a letter in which they say: “We
no longer understand. Before, our bishops used to support us in
the fight against Communism and they died martyrs, many are still
in prison, others are dead, martyred because they supported us against
the Communists in order to fulfill our duty as priests, and now
it is you bishops who are condemning us, it is you who are telling
us that we don’t have the right to resist, to fulfill our
apostolate, because it is contrary to the laws of Communism, it
is contrary to the government.”
How is that possible?
That is the situation in the Church. These are real betrayals which
took place!
So, you can understand
that when I go to Rome and when I refuse the principle of Religious
Liberty proclaimed at the Council, I am told, “you must accept
the Council, you must accept the liturgical reforms.” And,
then, I refuse. These are not trifling matters. Religious Liberty
did not get passed in the Council as easily as that. It is a whole
program. Consequently, for the last six years I have been going
to Rome, always to try to have them reform the Council, to have
the schemas of the Council reformed which are no good, like the
one on Religious Liberty. Obviously, I meet with a continuous refusal
on the part of the Vatican, though when I met the Pope himself,
at the end of 1978, he did agree to name an intermediary between
himself and myself, Cardinal Seper. Then Cardinal Seper died and
the Pope named Cardinal Ratzinger. But we are still running up against
the same problems. In the latest letter which I received from Rome,
the Pope continues to regret that I am unwilling to accept all the
acts of the Council, that I am unwilling to accept the liturgical
reforms in the Holy Church. But there is no way round these. And
in fact, there is even an additional obstacle, which is the new
Code of Canon Law, which has been made in the same spirit I’ve
just been speaking to you about, the spirit of the Council, a bad
spirit. Hence, obviously, I run into great difficulties. But since
they are willing to sit down and discuss, who knows? Almighty God
is all – powerful and so, I say to myself, if the Good Lord
wishes to make them understand, wishes one day to give them a particular
enlightenment, perhaps one day we shall manage to make them accept
a correction of the Council, to come back to Tradition in the liturgy
and to come back to Tradition in the Church. Well. I am well aware
that it is very difficult, because I have now been going for six
or seven years to Rome in order to achieve this purpose and we are
still at the same point we started. Hence, when they say I am seeking
a compromise with Rome, there is no question for me of compromising
over anything whatsoever with Rome I am simply asking for the return
to Tradition, which is the only way for the Church to truly recover
her perfection and her sanctity, as before.
There is the situation
such as it is at present, and I must admit that, for the moment,
I see no great hope. The only little success which might be on the
way is this famous decree still in suspense, still being put off,
a decree to enable all priests to say the old Mass, to leave them
freedom and no longer to persecute them. Now, this decree was due
to appear, but for three years they have been talking about it and
for three years it has still not been published. For, you must realize
that, at present, the situation at Rome is very difficult. Modernism
is still all powerful at Rome. The Modernist and progressive Cardinals
are in the majority; thus, even if there are one or two cardinals
who are more or less traditionalists and who have at least a desire
to come back to Tradition, well, they are immediately stopped by
five or six cardinals who have all power and who put pressure on
the Holy Father to stop any return to Tradition. It is they who
are preventing this decree from appearing. They say to the Pope,
“If you make this decree appear, if you liberate the old Mass,
the traditional Mass, then everything that we have done since the
Council is over and done with.”
There is a true struggle
going on in Rome between the few traditionalist Cardinals Cardinal
Oddi, Cardinal Ratzinger, Cardinal Pallazini, on one side, and all
the progressive cardinals on the other: Cardinal Casaroli, Cardinal
Pironio, Cardinal Baggio; and all those who are in the Congregations
of Worship: Cardinal Casoria with Msgr. Virgilio Noe; and then in
the Congregation of Faith, Msgr. Hamer, a Dominican, all these are
Modernists and each time that they go to see the Pope they say,
“Above all, no turning back, no return to Tradition, out of
the question!”
Now the Pope is not
strong willed. He seems a strong man, but he is not a strong man,
he is weak. I saw that myself in the audience I had with him. He
was ready to sign a paper giving me freedom, saying that I and the
Priestly Society could celebrate the Tridentine Mass, “Oh,
that’s not important, you prefer that Mass, oh, if you like,
that is not important. It’s a disciplinary question.”
And then, he summoned Cardinal Seper to say that he would be the
intermediary between the Pope and myself, and when he told Cardinal
Seper, “After all, there aren’t really many difficulties
in the case of Msgr. Lefebvre. We could grant him the right to celebrate
the Tridentine Mass with the Society.” “Oh, no!”
cried out Cardinal Seper, “Oh, no, Holy Father! They are making
this Mass into a battle flag! We cannot accept!” And then
the Holy Father was like a naughty child caught in the act, he seemed
to be afraid, and he said, “All right, all right. Listen,
you talk with Monseigneur, I have a great deal of work. Cardinal
Baggio is waiting for me. He has a great deal of work.” And
then the Holy Father left. That is not behaving like a true Pope!
A Pope who knows what he is doing should have said to Cardinal Seper,
“Listen, I am the head, I know what I am doing, and if I wish
to sign such a document for Msgr. Lefebvre, I am quite free to do
so!”
Here is why I have always
thought that I had to go to Rome, that I had to write, that I had
to visit these cardinals in order that they should not say that
we are doing nothing or that we no longer recognize them or that
we wish to have no contact with them. They cannot say that I have
not done everything in my power to try to stay in contact with them.
However, I think what counts much more are the facts, than the words
or writings, even for Rome. What are the facts which count for us?
The seminaries! To make priests! To make traditional priests, priests
according to Tradition, to make good and holy priests in our seminaries.
That is the work we must carry on with and the work which counts
in Rome. Why does Rome still go on receiving me? Why do they still
consider me with a certain respect? Because they know that I have
seminaries, that I have now ordained nearly 200 priests since 1970
and that I have 250 seminarians in my seminaries. They know that
very well and that’s what counts at Rome. They no longer have
any seminaries. Their seminaries are empty or they are Modernist
seminaries. Now they know that at Econe, at Ridgefield, at Zaitzkofen,
and at Buenos Aires, we are forming true priests. They know that
very well and they admire our young priests. So, that is what makes
even more of an impression on them than my words, writings or meetings.
They are well aware that this year I ordained thirty priests. So
that’s what I think it is. And they are perfectly well aware
that our priests are spread throughout the world. They know of the
existence of our traditional groups throughout the world, and a
little everywhere in the world. We are striving to extend. They
know we have many priories in Europe, in all the European countries.
They know, moreover, that there are other traditional priests, that
we are not alone, that we support other traditional priests in their
work. So all of that scares them a little. They are forced to reckon
with us. And that is how I think we will succeed one day in convincing
Rome that they must return to Tradition. They will say, we can no
longer ignore these seminaries, these priests, not only the priests
of the Society, but all traditionalist priests as well. We can no
longer ignore them. That is the task before us, and I have never
changed!....
